Lantern

[Peter]

That picture is good. I think it's the only manuscript picture I have that really shows construction. It could be bladder, but I think it's horn.

[Steenberg]

Yes horn seems more likely. But as the dome is circular I suppose the horn panels are curved as well. That seems tricky to me? And as we can see two panels in a two dimensional picture, the lantern should have four sides?

And the next thing. Are there any pictures of such a lantern with a handle?

[Peter]

I would think (I always believed) that those lanterns are round/octagonal or such. I haven't worked horn much, but I know the principles, and I can imagine it's not very hard to bend horn plates, working with some sort of frame to shape them.

And alas - I have really looked for lanterns with a handle (like a coffee mug), but I have only seen it in 15th century art...

[jboerner]

What is bladders? Raw hide? Here in germany, the reenactment scene is flowded with so-call "wisby" lanterns, which in fact have no other base then an outdated article in a magazine, in which a person I spoke to simply speculates what lanterns could be made from... All these lanters are made with "raw leather" or "raw hide".
Nearly all evidences I kno up to know speak of horn plates, from the 10th century on. In the late middle ages, and especially in the 15th century it becomes even very clear with for instances descriptions of craftsmen named" hornrichter" which fit the plates to the lanterns, and with lots of pictures showing the studs of the horn plates, and what's more, with several findings (Schleswig for instance) with traces of horn.

[Peter]

"Bladder" is the organ in the body where urine is gathered, before it comes out. The Wisby lantern is an actual find from the 18th century, and made of bladder over a wooden frame.

[jboerner]

Really? Are there any information on this? I would love to link that somehow, so that people finally see what the base for this scene legend is
The person I was talking about told me he has seen this type of lantern in a museum in wisby, here there are datings from the 9th to the 15th century for that

[Johan Käll]

yeah.. they are in the museum... in the museumshop.

its wellknown here in sweden that the lantern they are based on have doubtful medieval lineage. But.. they might have excisted. Since its so dark up here during winter cheap lantern must have been in need and.. they might have made them this way. But there are no evidence of it. None at all.

[Martina]

There is a hogbladder lantern on my local museum in Växjö, just like the "Visby" ones! I think it was dated to the 16th century but I can't really remember since it's a long time ago I saw it there. I also have a vague memory of seeing one when I was living in Sveg and travelled a lot to different museums in the north. At least I know I then made a desicion to use a hogbladder lantern in field based upon that they at least were used traditionally i Sweden in the past! But I know; it's not good enough as evidence!!

/Martina

[Mikkel F]

I took a picture of this lantern at Nationalmuseet i Copenhagen last week.
Couldn't find any information on how old it is. All I know is that it was in the medieval exhibition.

UPDATE:
The lantern is known as "Archbishop Absalons lantern" and is presumeably from the 14th century.
It is is made from brass plates and the window was probably fittet with a horn-pane. It is reenforced with bands of brass, and the "candle-holder" is made fron iron.
The lantern could be hung from hooks on a wall, or it could be fitted with a detachable handle.

Source: "Lys - lamper, stager og kroner fra middelalder og renæssance" by Niels-knud Liebgott, Nationalmuseet 1973

[Peter]

Mikkel --> The man!