The making of a container for gunpowder.

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The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Anders L » 28 Jul 2008, 01:44

I have written an article about making containers in cowhorn, unfortunetly its in swedish but loaded with pics. Im really interested in what kind of containers that the medieval gunners could have been using. And of course, share your experience of making containerns for gunpowder.

http://kurage.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/ ... -kruthorn/

Hörrni AB-kollegor, det är ju högst relevant i vår verksamhet hur vi ska bära omkring på vårt krut...
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http://www.kurage.wordpress.com -blogg about historical handcrafts and reenactment.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 28 Jul 2008, 09:30

In a Dutch 1361-1362 source I found mention of gunpowder being contained in, IIRC, leather bags and an old helmet.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Peter » 28 Jul 2008, 10:31

"IIRC"?
Otherwise - fantastic! This is the first 14th century source ever that I have heard of! Could you look a bit more into it, Bertus?
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 28 Jul 2008, 11:59

"If I Remember Correctly"

Here's the entry:

Item ten donrecrude op die reyse van Ghelrelant 2 sacke 2 s. 8 d. Item 2 oude wapenhuwen donrecrwt in te voeren op die voirscreven reyse 6 s.

This translates as

"For the gunpowder (donre = donder = thunder / crude = kruit = powder) for the campaign to Guelders, two sacks, cost 2 s. and 8 d. Two old bascinets to carry the gunpowder in on the aforementioned campaign, cost 6 s."

So no leather is specified, just that they're sacks.


Some background info:
This 1362 entry is from the household accounts of Jan van Blois. He was one of the most wealthiest and land-owning noblemen in the county of Holland, lived and held court in his castle at Schoonhoven and would inherit the French county of Blois in 1372 (but kept residing in Holland).
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Bertus Brokamp
 
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Peter » 28 Jul 2008, 20:37

No leather? Darn...
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
User avatar
Peter
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Posts: 2543
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 02:03
Location: Kävlinge, Sweden

Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 29 Jul 2008, 01:34

I knéw I had seen the leather bags sómewhere. Found it!


These are entries from the municipal accounts of Deventer, anno 1362:

Op Paelmavont bi Lubberte Holtinghe ende den armborstierre do sy dat donrecruyt makeden VI s. III d.
Op den selven dach omme eyne blasebolch III s. IX d.
Op den selven dach omme zes lederne budel daer men donrecruyt in dede IIII s. VIII d.
Op den selven dach omme twe cleyne temese XV d.

Op palmdach omme IIII cleyne maende daer men colen in doet bi dat donreschot II s.
Op den selven dach omme VI moelder calen XXIIII s.

Des manendaghes na den zonnendach Vocem iocunditatis umme VI blasebolghe XVIII Vlemsche groten maken XXII s. VI d.
Op den selven dach umme V lederne budel daer men dat bussencruyt in dede III s. IX d.
Op den selven dach umme VIII maende daer men colen ende loet in doet II s. VI d.



Translation:

"On Palmevening (Palm sunday, the sunday before Easter) given to Lubberte Holtinghe and the crossbowmaker (Deventer had one in service of the city) because they made the gunpowder 6 s. 3 d.
On the same day for a bellows 3 s. 9 d.
On the same day for six leather pouches in which the gunpowder was put 4 s. 8 d.
On the same day for two small sieves 15 d.

On Palmday for four small baskets in which they put the coals next to the ammunition 2 s.
On the same day for six moelder (a measurement) coal 24 s.

The monday after the sunday Vocem iocunditatis (fifth sunday after Easter) for six bellows 18 Flemish groats, make 22 s. 6 d.
On the same day for five leather pouches in which the gunpowder (bus = gun) was put 3 s. 9 d.
On the same day for eight baskets in which to put coal and lead 2 s. 6 d."


The 'bullets' fired by a.o. the Deventer militia in 1362 when besieging the castle of Voorst are made of lead and cillindric of shape (archaelogical finds at this site). The purchase of baskets with coal and lead and also bellows suggest these bullets were made 'on the spot'. Maybe the sieves had been used to make the gunpowder?
Last edited by Bertus Brokamp on 29 Jul 2008, 09:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Peter » 29 Jul 2008, 07:52

This is really more or less a break through! Now you'll get free booze for sure!
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
User avatar
Peter
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Posts: 2543
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 02:03
Location: Kävlinge, Sweden

Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 29 Jul 2008, 09:07

Hurrah! :D
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Anders L » 30 Jul 2008, 16:38

That is really amazing, especially the bascinets. A lot of gunpowder would fit in one of those..

Leatherbags does not seems to be very practical, perhaps its more of a leather flask? Like stiff leather...
+SVMMITVR : HINC : MVNDA : DIVINI : SANGVINIS VNDA+ DEVS : MEVS+
Herfra tages en bölge af det guddommmelige blod. Min Gud


http://www.kurage.wordpress.com -blogg about historical handcrafts and reenactment.
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Anders L
 
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 30 Jul 2008, 16:50

The medieval dutch text says budel which means pouch. Maybe they were still fiddling around with finding a more practical solution and in the meantime perhaps used a spoon to transfer the gunpowder from pouch to muzzle?
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