The making of a container for gunpowder.

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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Johan Käll » 30 Jul 2008, 17:00

I would think its about transporting the gunpowder. That is, not for the gunners to carry it on the field. So this could be rather large things. I guess they use leather and not linnen bags because powder (specially mealpowder) can leak through it.

so in conclusion, i would not say that this have to concern the way you carry powder for loading. It can just be a way of transporting it.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Anders L » 30 Jul 2008, 17:19

I thinking the same, its not made for loading just for carrying. So back to the original question, loading in the field and making of these containers. But its really interesting stuff so keep it comming anyhow.

Perhaps they used some kind of cartridges or more of "geschwinda skott" as we say. But since they didnt have paper to make cartridges they must have been using something else.

Maybe if we take a childrens pigface-bascinet without any breathing holes and eyes and saw the top of the pointy nose, then we have a great loading device to pour gunpowder into the barrel ;)
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 30 Jul 2008, 17:41

Over here we did have paper. Though I have not found any mention in accounts of it being used to make such cartridges, only to write stuff on.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Johan Käll » 30 Jul 2008, 17:44

Well..i think we discussed this in Italy Anders, but anyway.

Peter and i havnt seen anything that gunners use to carry powder in. I asked about it on HV once to, but that earliest thing people couls manage then was 15:th cetury powderhorns. There is a picture of an italian guardroom where you se big harquebus guns and a big powderhorn to. From 14:th century... nothing. You dont even see gunners wearing somekind of bag, witch we KNOW is needed to get your gunnerscrap out in the field.

As for using horns...
It may have been used, or it may not have been used. Its an open question really. I havent seen horns used for containing other stuff in sweden at that time so i wonder why they should get the idea "hey... this is gunpowder.. we should use a HORN to carry it around!" . IT a a smart way and some may have, but i doubt it would catch on for everyone right away. Even up in 16:th century you see landsknechts carry it in brassbottles.

So.. i think they kinde used what was laying around or what seemed good. Thats what the equipment in the group have now shows. We have stayed away from horn just because they are so 'gunny' but there is really nothing that stops you from using one. If you want one Peters and mine research so far have concluded "it could hanve been used, if anyone wants it they can make one"

As for 'geshwinda skott' (fastload shots)
There are some depictions of guncrews having preprepared shots for cannon. I dont know if gunners would have used it. They might have. We have even tried it in Azincourt. :)
We used small linnen bags prefilled with powder. the idea was to unload the bag into the barrel and the use the bag as a stuffer. Although....

The bags showed to be very difficult to open in battle. they where small and with golves on it took foreven to get them opened. we tried to bind them with just some waxed thread, but same there, Even using teeth didnt get it of very fast. And one grew tired of shooting away painstakingly sewed little bags...

All in all, its faster to 'bottlefeed' the gun. It might ba safer with premade, but as loading fast is something you usually prefer its not been used since.

Oh.. and one of the gunpowderbags are now a Teabag for Frida :)
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Anders L » 05 Aug 2008, 17:40

I know we have discussed this, but it´s still a important question to discuss with our foreign friends and others. Hey, thats what the forums is all about :)

So the earliest examples are 15th C, thats still quite early but not good enough.

Isn´t there small containers of wood with just the right amount powder for one shot. Alltough these are from later period like 1550-1700. They usually hang from a belt across the upperbody.

I really agreed with the bottlefeeding, its works quite fast especially if all gunners have their own powder.
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Re: The making of a container for gunpowder.

Postby Peter » 06 Aug 2008, 08:29

I'll put this one as a new topic. It is now under "The loading of guns" under "Fighting - at the field and person to person".
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
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