Burghers

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Re: Burghers

Postby Peter » 17 Oct 2010, 22:15

Great! One step closer!
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
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Re: Burghers

Postby Astrid » 18 Oct 2010, 23:24

This couple are English wool merchants, around 1370.

To mee they look the way I imagine "burghers".

So what is a burgher after all?
It is somebody being able to buy a piece of land inside the city walls.
This implicates that this person had to have some money.
This leads to the fact which was yet mentioned above - that he or she wore expensive clothing to show wealthiness.
And sometimes they were as wealthy that they were able to buy knight's stuff, too, and get dressed even wealthier...
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- the hanseatic merchant's wife -
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Re: Burghers

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 19 Oct 2010, 00:27

Astrid, when I read that chronicle text I had that effigy in mind as well! :D

But alas for me, it may not be from 1370. The depicted guy is Thomas Adynet who died in 1409.
http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/page296.html

Some info on the brass:
http://www.hamline.edu/brass/pdfs/m_nor_1409.pdf
An author has dated the brass at c. 1395 in the past.

Still, I think the style of the brass is quite possible for 1370. In 1395/1409 one would have expected baggy sleeves galore. Maybe he had it ordered way early before his/their death or the engraver used an older pattern?
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Re: Burghers

Postby Astrid » 19 Oct 2010, 19:12

Indeed, Bertus, you are right.
I have mixed up the gentleman with this one:
Brun Warendorp, the mayor (or a high person of that kind) of Lubeck who reigned in the 1370s or 1380 as far as I know.
His clothes look very similar.
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Re: Burghers

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 19 Oct 2010, 23:06

Ah yes Brun, I love him too. :)
I think he died 1369 or so, while or after, having conquered Helsingfors with Hanseatic troops?
I did not know there was a depiction of that brass hanging somewhere. I have seen the brass itself when I was in Lübeck, but only from a distance as the church-aisle it was in, was closed off by a fence. :|
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Re: Burghers

Postby Peter » 20 Oct 2010, 08:04

Helsingborg, Bertus ;)
Mordlysten krigsman, rå och hård i hjertat,
Och med ett samvete som helvet rymligt,
Skall rasa fritt med blodbestänkta händer
Och meja edra friska jungfrur af
Och edra fagra spenabarn som gräs
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Re: Burghers

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 20 Oct 2010, 10:33

Ah that was it Peter. Teaches me!
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Re: Burghers

Postby Anders L » 20 Oct 2010, 19:14

That is a great picture, very similar to my striped blue tunic with buttons. I made my after earlier sources but this pic shows that they are used even further in the century.

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Re: Burghers

Postby Bertus Brokamp » 21 Oct 2010, 10:52

And you even got striped cloth, very nice.
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Re: Burghers

Postby Hyväri » 22 Oct 2010, 08:24

In my opinion, the wery reason to making laws about who could wear what, tells us that many people not of noble lineage could afford to dress themselves just as good or even better. Why would there have been laws against it otherwise. This is so for Central- and Western-Europe, but how about here in the north? The society was not so steeply arranged and culture accepted more movement between some classes at least.

There was an exhibition in local medieval museum Aboa Vetus, about clothes couple of years back and one depition beside some garment pieces from Sweden said something about laws as to whom could wear what colours, but the neiher the guide or the museum curator (that I contacted) could say anything about wether such laws ever existed in the Swedish kingdom. (This is a common attitude even among finnish museum workers, I am sad to say, that medieval times were a homogenous age of universal european "technological level" rather than something that actually happened here for several generations.) Do you know about these clothing laws in Sweden? I have been under the impression, that such laws never really affected many people alltough they were written down, by some jealous noblemen. At least I remember reading that one of these laws had a later sidenote saying: "This law does not abide to armed men."

The fact, that it is so difficult to make difference between social classes just by looking at their pictures in an era when social stratigraphia was so steep, is what makes it so interresting. Or at least, we easily think it even steeper. One way to recognize a burgher is the mark of his trade. It is not something worn, but it could be carried to battle as a flag, for example. Here is a video I could have posted to some other threads, but I found most interresting part of it concerning this thread. At some point the lecturer shows a picture, where you have the mounted knights riding in their armour and in absolutely identical armur you will have the burghers riding carts with their professional guild flags. I believe it was a terrible disgrace to a knight having to sit in a cart and not ride a horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4

The lecturer also makes some other quite good remarks, but rather few that would be anything new to people reading this forum. Look it up anyway, if you can spare the time.
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